Why the Same Timeless Jewel Seed Changes by Socket

A Timeless Jewel seed is deterministic, not universal. It gives the same answer only when the jewel type, relevant historical figure, socket and passive-tree version also match.

Deterministic does not mean “the same everywhere”

Think of the seed as an input to a rule, not a list of bonuses stored on the item. The rule is applied to passive nodes. Different sockets expose different node IDs, so the same seed can transform completely different notables and small passives when the jewel moves.

This is why a trade post that says only “seed 4050” is incomplete. It may be a great result in the socket shown by the seller and an ordinary result in the socket your build can reach.

The four pieces that make a reproducible result

The historical figure is a fifth piece when you care about the keystone. For classic Timeless Jewels, the figure selects the keystone replacement while the seed controls the other seeded changes.

A concrete comparison

Suppose two players both own a Doryani Glorious Vanity with seed 4,050. Player A sockets it beside a Witch-area notable; Player B uses a socket near Duelist. Doryani still points to Corrupted Soul when an affected keystone is involved, but the surrounding nodes are different. The two players should not expect the same transformed notables.

Now keep the socket and seed fixed but change Doryani to Xibaqua. The non-keystone seed result remains the useful comparison point; the keystone selection changes to Divine Flesh. That is why calculators separate the historical figure from the seed field.

Radius has boundaries players miss

For classic radius jewels, the jewel must be placed in an allocated socket to function. The radius is tied to that socket's location on the main passive tree. The general jewel rules also exclude some special node categories from ordinary radius interactions, including Masteries, Ascendancy passives and passives added by Cluster Jewels.

The 3.29 Abyss Timeless Jewels are a separate case. Their item text refers to affected passives rather than a radius, and current planner support uses socket-specific data. The same practical lesson survives: do not transfer a result from one socket to another.

A comparison workflow that survives screenshots

1. Record the full jewel name and seed.
2. Record the historical figure exactly as printed.
3. Identify the socket by node ID or a nearby notable, and keep a tree screenshot for visual context.
4. Write down the passive-tree version. TimelessCalc currently uses 3.29.
5. List only the transformed nodes the build allocates, then include any extra travel cost.
6. Re-open the candidate in Path of Building before buying or changing the build.

This produces a small, auditable record: jewel, seed, figure, socket, tree and allocated gains. It is much easier to verify than a cropped image of three appealing notables.

When two tools disagree

First compare inputs. Most apparent disagreements come from a different socket, conqueror, tree version or build path. Next compare the data release. TimelessCalc pins Path of Building Community commit 510e03806791db5fb6563ef93104f2a62a273b97 and exposes release 2026-08-21.1 instead of silently following a moving data source.

If every input matches, keep the item text and socket ID and treat the discrepancy as a data issue. A deterministic system makes a mismatch reproducible, which is exactly what a useful bug report needs.

Sources and further reading

The core seed and historical-name behaviour is summarized by the PoE Wiki Timeless Jewel page. Socket allocation and radius exclusions are covered in its general jewel mechanics reference. Path of Building documents its in-app seed finder in help.txt and describes how the Timeless Jewel lookup tables are generated in its release documentation.

Compare a seed and socketRead the Glorious Vanity guide